Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/10/1997 09:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                             MINUTES                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                   
                         March 10, 1997                                        
                            9:05 A.M.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  TAPES                                                                        
                                                                               
  SFC-97, # 51, Sides 1 & 2 (000-589, 589-587)                                 
                                                                               
  CALL TO ORDER                                                                
                                                                               
  Senator  Bert  Sharp,  Cochair,  Senate  Finance  Committee,                 
  convened the meeting at approximately 9:05 A.M.                              
                                                                               
  PRESENT                                                                      
                                                                               
  In  addition to  COCHAIR  SHARP, SENATORS  DONLEY, PHILLIPS,                 
  TORGERSON  and  ADAMS  were  present  when the  meeting  was                 
  convened.  SENATOR PARNELL and COCHAIR PEARCE arrived as the                 
  meeting was in progress.                                                     
                                                                               
  Also Attending:                                                              
  BOYD   BROWNFIELD,   Deputy   Commissioner,  Department   of                 
  Transportation    and    Public   Facilities;    RON   OTTE,                 
  Commissioner, Department  of Public  Safety; CRAIG  JOHNSON,                 
  Legislative Aide  to Senator  Ward;  ROBERT COLE,  Director,                 
  Administrative  Services,  Department  of Corrections;  MIKE                 
  GREANY, Director, Legislative Finance Division; and aides to                 
  committee members.                                                           
                                                                               
  SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                          
                                                                               
       EO 98  TRANSFER HIGHWAY FUNCTIONS TO DOT&PF                             
                                                                               
       Boyd Brownfield  testified in  support.  Senator  Adams                 
       MOVED   EO   98   from    committee   with   individual                 
       recommendations.  Without objection, EO 98 was REPORTED                 
       OUT.                                                                    
                                                                               
       EO 99  TRANSFER DMV TO DOA                                              
                                                                               
       Commissioner Otte  testified in support.  Senator Adams                 
       MOVED   EO   99   from   committee   with    individual                 
       recommendations.  Without objection, EO 99 was REPORTED                 
       OUT.                                                                    
       SJR 3  PRISONER RIGHTS LIMITED TO FEDERAL RIGHTS                        
                                                                               
       Senator Donley testified on  behalf of the  resolution.                 
       Bob Cole was available for questions.  Senator Phillips                 
       MOVED that CSSJR 3(JUD) be reported out with individual                 
       recommendations  and  a  previous  zero  fiscal   note.                 
       Without  objection, CSSJR  3(JUD) was  REPORTED OUT  of                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
       committee with a  zero fiscal note from  the Department                 
       of Administration.                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
       Craig  Johnson testified  on behalf of  the resolution.                 
       Discussion  was  had concerning  additional descriptive                 
       language. Cochair Sharp HELD SJR 15 for the  purpose of                 
       drafting a CS.                                                          
       SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET REQUESTS                                            
                                                                               
       Cochair Pearce announced  scheduling plans.   There was                 
       brief discussion of Department of Corrections requests.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Executive  Order  No.  98 -  Transfer  Highway  Functions to                 
  DOT&PF                                                                       
  Executive Order No. 99 - Transfer DMV to DOA                                 
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP  announced that  EO 98 and  EO 99 were  on the                 
  table for comments.                                                          
                                                                               
  SENATOR PHILLIPS  asked representatives from  the Department                 
  of Transportation  and Public Facilities  and the Department                 
  of   Public  Safety   whether  anyone   had  contacted   the                 
  departments in opposition to EO 98 or EO 99.                                 
                                                                               
  BOYD   BROWNFIELD,   Deputy   Commissioner,  Department   of                 
  Transportation and  Public  Facilities, stated  that to  his                 
  knowledge there had  been no negative contacts  on Executive                 
  Order No. 98.                                                                
                                                                               
  RON  OTTE,  Commissioner,   Department  of  Public   Safety,                 
  responded that  he had  not received  any negative  comments                 
  either within or without the department concerning Executive                 
  Order No. 99.                                                                
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  MOVED EO  98 from  committee with  individual                 
  recommendations.  Without objection, EO 98 was REPORTED OUT.                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  MOVED EO  99 from  committee with  individual                 
  recommendations.  Without objection, EO 99 was REPORTED OUT.                 
                                                                               
  The presence of Senator Pearce was noted.                                    
  SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3                                                
  Proposing an amendment to the  Constitution of the State  of                 
  Alaska limiting the  rights of  prisoners to those  required                 
  under the Constitution of the United States.                                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor,  explained that  SJR 3 proposed  an                 
  amendment to the  Alaska Constitution  that would limit  the                 
  rights of convicted  prisoners in the state to  those rights                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  they are entitled  to under the  constitution of the  United                 
  States,  thus creating a  single constitutional standard for                 
  determining the  rights  of prisoners  in  the state.    The                 
  standard  would  be  the  U.  S. Constitution.    Currently,                 
  because Alaska has  a modern constitution,  it has a lot  of                 
  individual  personal liberties  and safeguards that  are not                 
  present in the U.  S. Constitution, nor are they  present in                 
  many other state  constitutions.  They are  wonderful things                 
  when applied to  the general public, but when  extended into                 
  the prison system  can cause  significant problems with  the                 
  administration of prisons.  The resolution would establish a                 
  single base line for the rights of  prisoners in Alaska.  He                 
  gave  some  examples  of  specific  areas  where  the  state                 
  constitution has been interpreted to  give rights they would                 
  not be entitled to under the  federal constitution.  One was                 
  the requirement that all prisons in Alaska be furnished with                 
  a  law  library.   The  federal  constitution  requires that                 
  prisoners be allowed access to  law information, but doesn't                 
  require a law library in every  facility.  Many other states                 
  provide  that  information   in  other  ways.     There  are                 
  substantial  due  process  protections  extended  to  Alaska                 
  prisoners regarding  disciplinary procedures  that have  not                 
  been required in other states or in  the federal system.  It                 
  is difficult to predict what additional rights Alaska courts                 
  would determine for prisoners that  don't currently exist in                 
  the federal constitution  since the  law is always  evolving                 
  because there are many prisoner lawsuits.  It would make the                 
  review of such lawsuits in the future a much simpler process                 
  since there would  be a single constitutional  standard with                 
  over two hundred  years of  case law to  aid in  determining                 
  rights.   In  Alaska,  being  a  new state,  many  questions                 
  require extensive work to  determine and make a legal  guess                 
  as to the unique provisions of the state's constitution.                     
                                                                               
  The presence of Senator Parnell was noted.                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR  DONLEY  added  that  he   had  studied  the  Cleary                 
  agreement for several years  to figure out how to  modify or                 
  overturn some of its  elements.  The agreement has  at least                 
  four places  where the  state has  agreed not  to reopen  or                 
  renegotiate.   It would take  a very significant  change for                 
  the  state to  renegotiate.   Many  people  think the  state                 
  should  do  that  and the  legislature  passed  a resolution                 
  several  years  ago, but  it  has  not been  pursued  by the                 
  department  because  they  didn't feel  that  there  was any                 
  significant  change  to  justify  a  Cleary  revisit.    The                 
  resolution may  not, in  itself, allow  sufficient basis  to                 
  reopen Cleary, it  would be  a significant change  and go  a                 
  long way toward accumulating sufficient  basis for the state                 
  to seek  to reopen the Cleary agreement and renegotiate some                 
  of the standards.  If approved by the legislature and voters                 
  of  the  state,  there  would  be   a  single  standard  for                 
  prisoners' rights and it would be simpler to  determine what                 
  is required.                                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS  asked to  see a  table or  chart showing  the                 
  difference between the state and  federal constitutions.  He                 
  then asked if  the resolution  does or does  not reopen  the                 
  Cleary case.   His final question was whether the resolution                 
  would make it easier for the death penalty.                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR  DONLEY  replied  that  a  chart  was  difficult  to                 
  construct  because  courts   have  not  separated  decisions                 
  between  constitutions.   They  have  made rulings  that are                 
  different than  federal rulings  but they  did not  say they                 
  were specifically because  of the state constitution.   Some                 
  cases  will say they ruled a  certain way under the basis of                 
  both constitutions, but they don't separate why they did it.                 
  The  courts typically  will  not  identify  the  differences                 
  because  they  don't have  to.   Senator  Donley  offered to                 
  provide research that indicates places  where they have done                 
  things that other states haven't required in the area of due                 
  process and internal disciplinary procedures.                                
                                                                               
  Responding to Senator Adams' second question, SENATOR DONLEY                 
  said SJR 3 would not automatically reopen Cleary because  it                 
  was a settlement.   It can only be reopened if either of the                 
  parties  seek to reopen it, then  it is based on an existing                 
  situation and the reasons for reopening it.   The settlement                 
  has  strong   anti-reopening  clauses  that   would  require                 
  substantial changes to be in effect.  It was his belief that                 
  SJR  3 would be a  substantial and significant enough change                 
  that the  state could petition  the court to  reopen Cleary.                 
  There is  a  question whether  SJR  3 would  be  significant                 
  enough for  a court to  rule a reopening.   The court  would                 
  look to the  total circumstances involved.  SJR 3 would be a                 
  step forward and may be sufficient justification for a party                 
  to ask  Cleary to be reexamined.                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY  spoke to  the third  question regarding  the                 
  death penalty.  He said there had been no testimony that the                 
  language in  CSSJR 15(JUD) would  have any direct  impact on                 
  the death  penalty.   It  was  different than  the  specific                 
  references  to  "cruel  and unusual  punishment"  that  were                 
  originally  addressed in  the Judiciary Committee.   SENATOR                 
  DONLEY acknowledged that "it might"  [make it easier for the                 
  death penalty].                                                              
                                                                               
  SENATOR  ADAMS inquired whether there was a legal opinion on                 
  whether  SJR  3  would  reopen  Cleary,  or  if  it  was  an                 
  assumption.  SENATOR DONLEY responded that the Department of                 
  Law testified in the Judiciary Committee that the resolution                 
  alone would unlikely allow them to reopen the case, but that                 
  it would be a factor in building a case to reopen it.                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY  gave additional examples of  Alaska rulings.                 
  One was  that  prisoners  have  a right  to  a  photocopier.                 
  Another  was the  right to  access rehabilitation  programs,                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  which federal law and other state  laws don't establish as a                 
  right.  He noted that the penal administration in Alaska has                 
  the  programs,  but   prisoners  would  no  longer   have  a                 
  constitutional right to  access them.   SENATOR ADAMS  asked                 
  what the impact would be  on prisoner rehabilitation without                 
  the right to access.  SENATOR DONLEY answered that under the                 
  existing  provisions  of  the  constitution, the  department                 
  would  provide   rehabilitation  programs.     Programs  are                 
  currently  limited  based  on  budgetary  restraints.     He                 
  expected that would  continue.  The resolution would say the                 
  prisoners didn't have  a right to  access programs.  So,  it                 
  would  continue that people  who run the  prisons would pick                 
  and  choose prisoners  who had the  best chance  by limiting                 
  access to  those most  likely to  benefit.   It would  limit                 
  access to a  limited resource and  some of the programs  are                 
  very   expensive   to  provide.      If  prisoners   have  a                 
  constitutional right to all of them, even those in for sixty                 
  years, it will get expensive.                                                
                                                                               
  SENATOR ADAMS asked the difference and reasoning between the                 
  original  resolution  and the  Judiciary CS.  SENATOR DONLEY                 
  explained that under federal  law all constitutional  rights                 
  stem   from  the  prohibition   against  cruel  and  unusual                 
  punishment.   The original  resolution paralleled  that, but                 
  with further examination, it was  believed the Alaska courts                 
  would not follow the same rule and would look to other areas                 
  of  the  Alaska  Constitution  to  interpret the  rights  of                 
  prisoners,  including  due  process   and  equal  protection                 
  clauses.   The decision  was made to  rewrite it  so that it                 
  didn't  refer specifically to  the prohibition against cruel                 
  and unusual  punishment but  to generally  refer the  Alaska                 
  Constitution rights  that would extend to prisoners.  It was                 
  redrafted as a separate section  of the constitution so that                 
  it couldn't be  later interpreted  by a court  that it  only                 
  applied to the  prohibition on cruel and  unusual punishment                 
  but other areas of the constitution that the court may at  a                 
  later time determine  extended into the  prison system.   He                 
  believed  it was  a  wise drafting  choice.   An  additional                 
  change  made it clear  that this limitation  only applied to                 
  convicted  prisoners,  so it  could  not be  argued  that it                 
  applied to those awaiting trial.                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR  PHILLIPS inquired  if there  was  public testimony.                 
  COCHAIR SHARP noted that Robert Cole was present  to respond                 
  to questions and there were none.                                            
                                                                               
  SENATOR  PARNELL  stated  that  the  revisions made  in  the                 
  Judiciary  Committee  dramatically  improved the  resolution                 
  because "when  you amend the constitution you  better get it                 
  right."                                                                      
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY added  that there were  four hearings on  the                 
  resolution  in  the  Judiciary  Committee  and   significant                 
  progress  was made in  the drafting from  suggestions by the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Department of Law  and legislative drafters.   COCHAIR SHARP                 
  stated it was easier to understand and analyze a new section                 
  than modified existing ones.                                                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR PHILLIPS  MOVED that  CSSJR 3(JUD)  be reported  out                 
  with individual recommendations  and a previous  zero fiscal                 
  note.  Without objection,  CSSJR 3(JUD) was REPORTED  OUT of                 
  committee with  a zero fiscal  note from  the Department  of                 
  Administration.                                                              
  SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15                                               
  Relating  to  reauthorization   of  the  federal  Intermodal                 
  Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991.                               
                                                                               
  CRAIG JOHNSON, Legislative Aide  to Senator Ward,  testified                 
  that  the  resolution calls  for  the federal  government to                 
  reauthorize  ISTEA, a  federal program  that shares  federal                 
  gasoline tax revenues with the states which is due to expire                 
  on September 30.   Alaska  has received over  $1 billion  in                 
  federal funds to build highways,  ferries and airports since                 
  1991.  The  funds represent  approximately one-third of  the                 
  state's transportation budget.  SJR 15 calls on the  federal                 
  government  to  renew  the  program  and  give  states  more                 
  flexibility  in  the  way  it   uses  funds  to  fill  their                 
  individual needs.  It  sends a strong message to  the Alaska                 
  delegation  in  Washington  to  support  reauthorization  of                 
  ISTEA.                                                                       
                                                                               
  SENATOR DONLEY  noted several  committee meetings  regarding                 
  this subject  and  efforts of  states  to delete  the  major                 
  investment study requirement of ISTEA.  He asked if  Senator                 
  Ward would be open  to adding that issue to  the resolution.                 
  MR. JOHNSON responded  that Senator Ward would  be receptive                 
  to amendments proposed by this committee.                                    
                                                                               
  COCHAIR PEARCE  commended Senator  Ward for introducing  the                 
  resolution, indicating that  she has asked  him to do so  as                 
  Chair  of the  Transportation Committee  because she  shared                 
  similar concerns as Senator  Donley.  There are a  number of                 
  things in ISTEA that the  legislature has found frustrating.                 
  Since Congressman Young is the  second ranking Republican on                 
  the committee that will have jurisdiction in writing the new                 
  ISTEA, she thought it important  that the legislature decide                 
  first what they  would like to see in ISTEA as it relates to                 
  Alaska, and then  send the  resolution to the  congressional                 
  delegation so  they understand  the state's  concerns.   She                 
  suggested  both Senator  Torgerson and  Cochair Sharp  would                 
  probably come up with other specific areas of interest.  One                 
  of hers was asking  that the state be allowed to  do some of                 
  the major maintenance with federal funds  that it is not now                 
  allowed.  Instead, the  state waits for roads to  fall apart                 
  and then pay the  cost to rebuild them and bring  them up to                 
  whatever the new  standards happen to  be.  She stated  that                 
  "we're  building  to New  Jersey  standards in  rural Alaska                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  sometimes and  wasting, in  my eyes,  an enormous amount  of                 
  money."  She was appreciative  of Senator Ward's willingness                 
  to  have the committee  make some  specific comments  in the                 
  resolution.                                                                  
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP added that the  committee consider adding more                 
  descriptive  language.   He  suggested  on page  3,  line 2,                 
  adding  language to read "to authorize  greater use of ISTEA                 
  funds  for rehabilitation, major  maintenance and  repair of                 
  existing roads  caused by  extreme arctic  weather and  soil                 
  conditions" which was the root of  most of the problems that                 
  cause the  roads  to deteriorate  faster than  those in  the                 
  lower '48.  He  suggested that would give them  something to                 
  hang  their hat  on as to  why "things  go to hell  up here"                 
  faster  than they  do anywhere else.   It is  not because of                 
  lack  of  attention,  it  is  the severe  weather  and  soil                 
  conditions.                                                                  
                                                                               
  SENATOR  PHILLIPS  added  that   subarctic  be  included  in                 
  addition to arctic because it is a huge state.                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON stated he prepared an amendment that takes                 
  part of the enhancement funds, such  as ten percent for bike                 
  trails,  and  asks Congress  to give  a  percent of  the ten                 
  percent to maintain what the state  is building.  He thought                 
  that was an important piece.                                                 
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP proposed  holding the  resolution to add  more                 
  descriptive language as discussed.  He encouraged members to                 
  offer  additions.  His  intent was  to bring  the resolution                 
  back later in the  week as a CS incorporating  the language.                 
  He added that he would coordinate that through his office.                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON brought up the fact that there were twelve                 
  subsections  to ISTEA of which the  state had exemptions for                 
  eight.  He stated a need to focus on the eight  and continue                 
  to  ask for  exemptions so that  there was not  a mandate to                 
  spend money  on eight other  programs that don't  affect the                 
  state.    He  had  previously  requested  a  list  of  those                 
  exemptions from the  commissioner of DOT&PF.   COCHAIR SHARP                 
  agreed that the exemptions should be reinforced.                             
                                                                               
  COCHAIR PEARCE thought winter trails were nice and supported                 
  using the trail  money to mark them in rural  areas, but she                 
  saw so many road  maintenance needs on major highways.   She                 
  wished ISTEA  wouldn't set  aside dollars  the state is  not                 
  able to spend to build trails  when there aren't safe places                 
  to drive cars.                                                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR TORGERSON thought  the state  didn't have a  choice,                 
  that  they  would set  aside  the  enhancement money.    His                 
  amendment  would  at least  ask for  the authority  to spend                 
  enhancement money to  maintain what  the state is  building.                 
  COCHAIR PEARCE stated  it was worth letting  the congressman                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  know if they  feel strongly about anything because they have                 
  proven their  ability to amend  laws for Alaska  in previous                 
  times.                                                                       
                                                                               
  COCHAIR SHARP  suggested  requesting  utilization  of  those                 
  funds  for  improvement of  pioneer  access roads,  historic                 
  trails and recreational  trails.  He  then asked members  to                 
  coordinate with his staff.  SJR 15 was HELD in committee.                    
  COCHAIR PEARCE  brought up  supplemental requests  and asked                 
  budget subcommittee chairs to bring their suggestions to her                 
  within the  next two days because it was  her hope to have a                 
  draft version of  the supplemental by  the end of the  week.                 
  There   followed   general  discussion   regarding  priority                 
  projects in the Department of Corrections.                                   
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting was adjourned at approximately 9:55 A.M.                         

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